Hi lads,
Yes long time no hear from me, belated Happy New Year. Anyways I finished my cycle before xmas 30th Nov. 2009.
cycle was:
Test C: 600mg/week
Trenbolone 100: 75mg every 2nd day.
Dbol: 50mg/ every day for 8wks.
my diet was good about 350-400g of protien a day and i took cellmass throughout my cycle and after too.
I made massive gains strenght wise and put on muscle very quik!!
Pic 1 shows me in the morning about 1 week into my cycle and i was not even pumped just eat my breakfast.
Pic 2 was taken xmas day(xmas day swim yes very cold ha..)
weight in pic 1 about 93-94kg
weight in pic 2 89-90kg
At my peak during my cycle i hit 97-98kg!!!

Note:
during my cycle i resummed playing rugby 1st team at that, as i was out injured for 4mths which meant rugby training twice a week for 2 1/2hours plus match on sunday.

Dec was poor diet and training with exams in college and work but got in min 3 days a week mainly skipped legs as i play rugby so enough leg work. diet as been xmas was poor ha...

its now mid jan and my gains have GOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
During my cycle i beneched 180kg for 1 throwing it off myself, and incline was 120kg for 10 good for me. now 150kg for 2 last last day week before was 160kg for 1.
My strenght has gone down Big time in my bench and shoulders i would say 20kg at least!!! arms i.e. standing bbell curls 5-10kg again depending on the day if i am tired, back is the same actually stronger! trieceps are stronger too, legs their just always strong over rugby small though, traps the same. fitness never been as fit in my life rugby training and matches take nothing out of me, if u know want i mean...and returned to MMA last week after a 3mths layout and 10x10mins rounds with 1min break again took nothing out of me.
But i am so so.............disappointed i lost my gains of muscle.
I believe i lost about 5kg basically everything i put on i actually kept nothing!!!
tee shirts that were sticky to me especially on the arms are now loose. My biggest gains on the cycle were my arms! they got huge...everyone was saying it to me. Now after xmas i hear the say quote from everyone "God **** you have lost so much weight and you look real tired looking"

So i ponder!!! and i believe 3 mistakes
1. I should not of taken cellmass while on the cycle as i was on it to long and when i needed it after going off my cycle my body had got used to it so it didnt have any benefit fot me.
2. I did to much between rugby and studying it took alot out of me and at xmas i worked everynight so had late nights...No i didnt drink at all over xams
3. I should of eaten more!! got in more caloires, but if i look at food i get fat i am one of those guys i still now watch what i eat.
BASICALLY with all the cardio at rugby jsut trimmed me down and i lost my muscle as training is intense and my body was not getting in enough calories so eat into the muscle for food(am i right?)

look at the pics guys and give me some feed back on what u think i did WRONG..
thanks..
i plan doin the same cycle again in 4weeks.
this time do it right!
so i want tips ha...

Attached Images

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	pic2.JPG (11.2 KB, 6 views)

__________________
" To the brave, nothing is impossible"

Bro, I read nothing that mentions PCT?? What was Ur PCT protocol like?? Without Pct U will definitely lose everything U gained, not to mention are U still eating like U were whilst on cycle?? That plays a big part as well, but PCT is where it's at! I'm also surprised the Tren didn't hurt Ur cardiovascular either, especially with all the running U were doing, Tren wreaks havoc on my cardio! Ur pics look good, but I must be honest and say U definitely lost alot of Ur gains, which leads me to believe it was more water retention than quality gains.

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PCT:
Clomid started 2 weeks after my last shot for 3 weeks took 100mg for fist 5days and 50mg for the rest plus took liv52 the day my last tablet and stay on it for 3weeks about 4 tablets for fiorst week and 3 tablets for 2 weeks.
I always fit but i dont find when taken the gear my fitness jsut improves big time! so much that i have to bullshit to my coach than i am doing extra in the gym which i am not! as i am a forward and i am running rings around the backs.
I don't think i put on water, as i have never ever in my life has as much vains in my life!! even out through my legs and my arms were like a map when they were pumped.
so just dont know what the fuck went wrong!!!
My diet is good, but really even as xmas i still was not to bad to be fair!
my typical day:
7.30am cellmass
7.50am 30g of whey protein
8am half mug of oat meal with water and chop up a banana into it.
along with 2yorks and 6whites.
1 slice of granary bread.

11am 2 cans of tuna (which is about 64g of protein)

1am 8-10oz of turkey with with a salad

4pm whey protein 30g (before the gym)

5.30pm cellmass
5.50am whey 30mg

6.30pm 8-10oz of red meat with broccoli, or salad and mixed veg

9-10pm maybe turkey again 8oz

11.30am tuna
and before bed 30g casein protien.

water wise i drink about 2gallons a day, i dont drink alcohol only on hols.
as u can see i am pretty good!! my only reat is at nite with a cup of tea is maybe 2-3 plain rich tea biscuits which are only 43kcal

__________________
" To the brave, nothing is impossible"

I see, everything from Cycle to Pct is spot-on, and diet is good Imo! Only thing I can think is the Clomid may have been Bunk or under-dosed not giving back all that was needed, which is quite common today, when it comes to Pct, it's very important for everything to be dosed correctly, and that's a 50/50 nowadays! What were Ur feelings about the Clomid, and how many cycles have U ran previously, and is the Sauce and the Ancillaries coming from the same supplier???

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I get all my stuff from the same place, all have licence too.This was my 3rd cycle my other 2 cycle i made gains. as for clomid i buy it as it is cheap for starters that HCG.
Hindsight now i think i should of taken at least 1 shot fo hGH and took more clomid.
And i think i probably didnt eat enough while on my cycle plus i should of used cellmass after my cycle not during it.
been honest dude i am fucking gutted over it! But u learn from your mistakes!!!
I plan on repeating the cycle again but this time stricter diet!!! eat eat eat.....
and more rest when i am on gear bro' i am a work horse i can train twice a day 11-12days in a row and not feel tired! twice would inclue weights and rugby or mma at nite.

__________________
" To the brave, nothing is impossible"

Just clomid for PCT is not nearly sufficient...In fact you probably would have done better with nolvadex...Nolvadex and HCG would have been the thing to do

This is interesting.

Am curious as I haven't played rugby before but know it's a lot of strenuous cardio...I can see you losing muscle mass and strength as I know people who have experienced this same thing. There are some simularities increased cardio and lack of caloric intake.

I'm not saying that PCT isn't partially to blame (and not an expert on PCT anyway) but am leaning towards Rugby and lack of proper nutrition and training.

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This is what I'm thinking also, although Clomid at 50mgs/ed for 4 weeks was sufficient for me before I started TRT years ago, but I'm definitely with Mr.S here on this. I suggest U follow this protocol for PCT after Ur next run, I really believe it is Ur best route this time!! I also agree with any1uno as well!

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This is my training routine: (current and while on the gear)
*= going up in weight every set min. 5kg, bench 10kg, back 10kg, shoulders 10kg

Day1:
Chest/Biceps:
Chest:
Flat bench
2x15 warm up 60kg, 100kg
1x6 120kg and 130kg
1x2 140kg, 1x2 150kg, 1x2 160kg then i might try 1of 170kg mabye 180kg

Incline bench at 30 degress:
4x10 going up in weight each set

3x20-18 Dumbbells inlcine at 15degrees (do high reps as heaviest weight in dBell is 30kg)

maybe dips 3xfailure with 30sec rest between sets


Biceps:
Standing bicep curl
4x10,10,8,6*
Preacher curl with a barbell
4x10*

Single arm curl:
3x8
Hammer curl:
3x8


Day 2
Back/triceps

back:
Wide grip chin ups 4x10
Lat pulldown to the front
4x10*
Lat pulldown to the rear
3x10*
Narrow grip pull downs
3x10*
Hypers
4x15 with 10kg

Legs:
struggling with injury for nearly 6mths "Osteitis Pubis"
so when i do train legs its just leg ext, leg curl and light front squats.
train calves EOD at end of my workout 4x20 max weight

Day 4
Shoulders/traps

behind the neck press(as low as possible)
4x10,8,8,6*
Front press
4x10*
Arnie press
3x12*
side laterals
3x12*

Traps:
Behind the back shrugs
4x15
Front shrugs
4x15
Seated dumbbells
4xfailure (again 30sec break between sets as only have 30kg dumbbells in the gym)

Forearms like calves EOD rev. curls standing 4x15ish *


I train rugby 2 nights a week, matches on sundays.
MMA= Mauy thai, BJJ twice a week, now it will be min. 3
which is about 90mins

dont train abs over Ostetis pubis causes major pain. do core at rugby training alright plus BJJ (brazilian jiu jitsu) there is a lot of core involved.

Do ye think I am doing to much? I think now YES...

I like to change my weights routine any ideas??

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" To the brave, nothing is impossible"

Training session looks good, only thing I would change is, keep the sets for bigger body-parts such as back, chest, legs to a minimum of 8-10 working sets possibly just to see if it changes Ur gains and the way U feelin. As far as changing Ur routine up, that's something U can mess with personally at different times just to stir the pot up and keep the muscles wondering what U gonna do next. Or if U gaining like U want, why fix something that isn't broke, but I always switch-up routines every 2 months just to keep getting new growth depending on my goals and where I need to be.

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5'9 225lbs.

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Thanks a million BIGGIN, Yes i was thinking for 2mths changing all my reps to 8-10 for a change and I stay with 2mins between sets.
If yuu don't mind can I ick your brain a bit, what is your opinion on testiviron made by sherang? Along with my last cycle I can get that too, just where I get my gear all the bodybuilders in the gym there use testiviron.
As for HCG I can get my 5000iu just it is expensive compared to clomind
I know we cant name prices here so for 5000iu of HCG cost me 33% more that a pack of clomid.
Anyways I was thinking your Right! my gains were water weight wise over the Dbol.
So thinking next cycle testivirion stacked with Trenbolone..
what do you think?
thanks

__________________
" To the brave, nothing is impossible"

I think U will enjoy that cycle if all other properties such as diet, training and recovery are executed properly. Run Ur cycle something along these lines:

Weeks 1-12 Testoviron 500mgs/week. Split-shot dosage to 2xs/week to help keep the blood levels stable, very important.

Weeks 1-10 Tren-E 300mgs/week. U can bump the Tren when U bump Ur Test, it will be fine to mix em, also less pinning. That is if Ur getting Tren-E, which I suggest U bump, less injections. Is this Ur first time runnin Tren?? If so, I suggest U go with Tren-A just in case U can't handle the sides. With Tren-A U can stop if the sides are to harsh and it will be out of Ur system rather quickly being it's a fast-acting ester versus the Enanthate ester. If U go with Tren-A run something like this:

Weeks 1-10 Testoviron 125mgs/eod.

Weeks 1-8 Tren-A 75-100mgs/eod. U can mix em together and shoot together as well. If U can handle 75mgs of Tren-A good, then on Week 2-3 bump it to 100mgs/eod.

Run Ur HCG as U previously have. U will definitely get better quality gains that are easy to maintain whilst running Tren. It's all about diet, training, recovery, and the compounds one runs that determines the type of quality gains U achieve. When it comes to Tren, it doesn't get any better Imo!! Keep Us posted on Ur decision and how the cycle gos, and if anything needs to be tweaked when it comes to the cycle, just Holla!!

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TRET-A as in Acetene? that what i can get

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" To the brave, nothing is impossible"

That's right Tren-A is Tren Acetate. U can run the Tren-A for 8 weeks at 75-100mgs/eod with Test-P at 100-125mgs/eod, or run it with the Testoviron like previously stated above.

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5'9 225lbs.

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Personally, I would say it's about impossible to play rugby and maintain lots of muscle mass. I hate to be the pessimist, but I think you will have to choose which one you want to do.

Thanks again Biggin,
dragonrider Yes a lot of cardio involved plus matches but muscle power and muscle can be gained, but i will say i in train in BJJ and MMA and there is the problem for muscle mass too. For example thrus mid-day trained shoulders/traps then at 6.30pm i had 3 hrs of bjj 10mins rounds with 1 min...and u swaeat easily 3-4kg i am not lying.
What i did hte last week is upped my food intake and i have found i have put on a bit of size again. getting min. 6 meals again (which was poor over teh xmas peroid) and 4 shakes a day, order more glutamine as to help with muscle recovery.
Was chatting to my supplier of supplies he was telling me for post and pre work shakes he throws in glutamine/BCCAs into the shake too. That is a new one to me what is yere view on that?
I wont be starting my new cylce for 2-3weeks so i am looking forward to it and hopefully put my worngs right this time.
Rugby lads is my first love! yes its hard to fit in eveything but i love sports and it beats sitting in the pub drinking! as most Irish folk do

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" To the brave, nothing is impossible"

My thoughts exactly. The high cardio may have some impact but the poor PCT will definitely cause extreme loss.

MR.S is correct on pct and I would add gh as bridge, The high Cardio will be a problem as the body adjust to become more oxygen efficient for long periods of cardio.